Just witnessed the most horrible sight!

amother

Pearl

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 5:33 am

ora_43 wrote:

A 6-year-old. At 1:30 in the morning. Shivering from cold and crying. In the dark.

Abusive parents do **** like that all the time. Normal parents do not.

I missed the time. That's also disturbing. But abusive parents do this often not one isolated incident so if OP isn't hearing this regularly then why assume the parents are abusive or that there isn't more to the story?

Rappel

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 5:35 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I'm in New York, its freezing in middle of the night. As I said I dont really know the family well .Could be there was more to the story which we don't know and could be it was a one time thing. However I believe a child can get traumatized just from this.

I'm with Frantic Frummie. I'll happily pay for and mail a parenting book to the given address. I live across the world, so I can't meet the person in the street. Thus everyone's integrity is protected.

OP, please consider this a serious offer.

It may be that the family will throw the book in the trash. But it sounds like that's a caring mum whom is trying to teach her kids, but she needs better skills. No reason that she shouldn't have the information available.

Raw

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 5:37 am

ora_43 wrote:

The only people I've known who actually lost kids in the US were severely physically abusive. Of course, that's not what they tell the neighbors.

Unfortunately this is just not true. Listen to “do no harm,” an investigative podcast about this subject exactly.

ora_43

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 5:37 am

amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

Abusive parents usually do nearly all of their abuse behind closed doors. Why assume that if they were abusive, she would know?

amother

Lemon

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 5:43 am

CPS was called on my family a bunch of times when I was a kid. My parents put on a good show, and we kids all knew what to say. It was scary for all of us, but nothing ever came if it. (Except that we had to clean the house before they came back.)

I know every case is different and CPS in every city is different. But my point is "just call CPS" is easy, but probably not a real solution. There isn't in always a simple simple answer.

ora_43

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 5:45 am

Raw wrote:

Unfortunately this is just not true. Listen to “do no harm,” an investigative podcast about this subject exactly.

That's about how severe injuries can be mistaken for abuse by doctors. Not about CPS overreacting to minor abuse. Like - the fact that CPS took a child out of her home after her caretakers were (wrongly) convicted in court of deliberately burning her, doesn't mean that CPS would take a child out of his home for this.

amother

Aubergine

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 5:49 am

I live in Lakewood and it was quite warm last night at 1am. Sometimes kids look like they’re shivering if they’re crying too much. The mother probably didn’t deal with it the right way, but I really don’t think you should judge! You have no clue what went on before the child was outside!

amother

Wheat

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 5:50 am

ora_43 wrote:

So exactly like this story, except not in the middle of the night, not in the dark, not shivering from cold, and the door wasn't locked.

Or in other words: nothing like this story.

I dont know...
Yes, it would happen in the dark, whenever he was up even at night.
Yes, in the cold. (Read the part in my post about the snow and him refusing a coat)
How do you know if the OPs neighbor locked the door or not?

amother

Blue

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 5:53 am

No one was there and knows what really happened.
All we know is that op saw the child outside for a few minutes and then let back in.
We have no idea what happened before the child was sent out or what kind of parent the mother normally is.
We have no idea how this child normally behaves. It could obviously be a rather difficult child who pushes more buttons than anyone can ever imagine. The mother was standing on the other side of the door and after a few moments the child was back inside.
You really don’t know what happened and how you would have reacted.

I had a child like that. I was told by a professional that I should lock the child in a dark place for time out each time the child is inappropriate. The child was inappropriate many times throughout the day. Usually it meant that my child physically hurt other children in the family. I placed the child in the stairwell going down to the basement. Top of the stairs had a door. Bottom of the stairs had a door. Had you seen this, you probably would have wanted to call the authorities.
We were trying to fix something very broken and were following advice as strange as it seemed.
Don’t judge if you weren’t there.
The child was cold for a few minutes, true. But he might have caused way more damage to other people in the family and needed this time out. The mom was on the other side of the door the whole time.
Yes, it looks bad if you don’t know what’s going on and if you never had a child like that you can’t even begin to understand the dynamics. Be thankful. Don’t judge something that took place for a few minutes.

amother

Lemon

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 6:02 am

Here's my crazy unprofessional advice: become her friend. Come up with a reason to schmooze with her, maybe invite her over. Talk to her about how hard parenting can be for you sometimes, maybe you'll get here to open up, and you can get a better understanding of the situation.

Maybe you can then give her a parenting book in a not passive aggressive way (like dropping it on her back porch would be) Maybe you can find out who rav is, or someone else she trusts who can get involved.

Just be careful. My dysfunctional mother had this huge "do-gooder" radar, and she would shut out any friends as soon as they got too pushy.

amother

Wheat

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 6:04 am

Also, maybe the mother gave him a hug before sending him out, with some warm words of encouragement?
Maybe she hugged and kissed him and told him "next tine youll do better" when he came back in? And then tucked him into bed with a story?
Maybe this
We have NO idea whats truly going on in there.
(And in monsey NY last night it was close to 50 degrees)

amother

Forestgreen

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 6:10 am

amother [ Wheat ] wrote:

No encouraging words are good enough at 130am for a child to be put outside.

Nothing is right about this story. Need a dark place... bedroom with lights off? Bathroom? Basement even (assuming its not terrifying down there)?

This mother was wrong. Idk how anyone is defending her. Mothers or fathers who do this need serious help! Kids who get this reaction or similar need help.

amother

Mauve

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 6:11 am

Go buy the family or mother something yummy and go over there and introduce yourself. Let her know that you are available to chat if she ever needs or whatever else you're able to offer.
Do something else nice for her if this is doesn't work.
You never know what someone else is going through. Maybe all she needs is someone to care.
(Maybe she is a single mom with a newborn that kept her up all night and her baby finally fell asleep and she lost it when the other kids started screaming etc etc etc. )

yksraya

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 6:36 am

Maybe the kid ran outside to fetch something and got locked out? Maybe a sibling locked him out while in a fight?

1:30 is late, but it was motzei shabbos Chanukah when people get back late from parties.

I would say keep an eye out to see if this happens frequently before getting involved.

amother

Azure

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 6:40 am

amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:

He could've also refused to wear his coat! Was the door definitely locked? Maybe he wanted to be out there making a scene. You can't know! I definitely wouldn't call cps or do anything drastic from a one time incident. Keep your ears and eyes open fir the child from now on. That's all you can really do at this point. Maybe maybe the book idea but I don't know about you, but it would break me to get something like that from an anonymous sender not knowing who it could be from. That's awful!

amother

Chocolate

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 6:41 am

amother [ Blush ] wrote:

As someone who has done it, or very close to it, it is 100% terrible parenting.

The question is "is it so abusive as to warrant me involving the authorities or not"?

It's hard to know. As I said, had someone called CPS on me, they would have made things much worse. Yes, the abusive behavior would have promptly stopped. But it would have utterly destroyed me. I don't think I would have ever recovered, that our marriage would have survived.

On the other hand, to remain silent when a child is suffering is unspeakably callous.

Maybe it would have helped you?

amother

Chocolate

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 6:44 am

amother [ Azure ] wrote:

It’s ok to break a child but not ok to do anything that could possibly shame the mother?