Is this rude? | Imamother

amother

Sat, Jan 21 2012, 8:13 pm

Let me start this by saying I don't always eat out kosher in dairy restaurants, just to get that out of the way. I know that it's not considered kosher to eat a salad in a not kosher restaurant because of bugs, utensils, etc. Please don't comment on that because that isn't my question and you won't be providing me with info I don't already know.
Recently, me and a few of my more religious friends went out to a hookah bar and there was a minimum. I didn't want to get an alcohol at the time because I wasn't feeling well and I was really hungry so I got a salad.
They all ordered drinks and hookah and made sure the drinks were kosher.
They never said anything because they are very non-judgmental, but was it rude of me to order a salad that they hold is not kosher while I'm hanging out with them?
If you were the more frum type who did go out for drinks and hooka with her girls, would you be offended if someone did that?
I'm going out again tonight for hookah with another friend who is on their same level but I probably won't order salad because I felt funny after I did it last time. I just don't want to be disrespectful to someone else.
Would you find it disrespectful? Just wondering.
(Please no comments on religious women going out for hookah or drinks. If you must, please start a new thread on that.)

ROFL

Sat, Jan 21 2012, 8:20 pm

Can I ask why you think you can get approval here? Have you not noticed in the past few weeks the ridiculous posts and holier than thou comments?
Suffice it to say that if your friends went out for drinks and hookah and said nothing to you about your order you can eat what you please. just know that there are halachic problems.

someoneoutthere

Sat, Jan 21 2012, 8:35 pm

I wouldn't. Even with friends who wouldn't say anything, it's a matter of sensitivity to their standards. Just as I wouldn't get coffee while out with them from a place they wouldn't get coffee from themselves. my personal feeling

Mrs Bissli

Sun, Jan 22 2012, 10:57 am

On the other side, your friends did agree to go to a place that is not supervised, right? If they would feel offended, they would not have joined you in the first place. Not that I'm endorsing food items that can be problematic in a non-kosher restaurant, but just another viewpoint.

freidasima

Sun, Jan 22 2012, 11:03 am

Why is it worse to eat potential bugs which at least in size are hopefully botel beshishim in comparison with trashing ones lungs and liver? Has nothing to do with frumkeit. I would write the same to a secular woman asking me when those are the choices...

little_mage

Sun, Jan 22 2012, 11:23 am

I don't think it was rude, but I'm wondering why you didn't get a soda? When I've been in non-kosher restaurants for various reasons, I'll get a Sprite or something, since I know that's kosher.

If this is something you do regularly, might it be worth investing in your own pipe? Then you can have people over to our own home and not have to worry about the kashrus.

mizle10

Sun, Jan 22 2012, 11:28 am

little_mage wrote:

I understood it as the friends being more machmir on hechsherim than she was.
I don't think I would call that rude, but I feel uncomfortable when people do that.

WriterMom

Sun, Jan 22 2012, 11:28 am

Mrs Bissli wrote:

My initial reaction too.

33055

Sun, Jan 22 2012, 11:32 am

little_mage wrote:

I don't think op is concerned with kashrus. She is not going to bars for food or drinks. She is going for social reasons.
[edited by mod. Only Yael decides who belongs on this site.]

That being said, it is not respectful to eat non-kosher food in front of kosher people.

mizle10

Sun, Jan 22 2012, 11:36 am

WriterMom wrote:

Mrs Bissli wrote:

My initial reaction too.

If I went to Starbucks with friends for coffee, I would not expect one of my friends to buy a non-kosher muffin. It sounds like they were going out for drinks and knew what they were buying was kosher.

chocolate chips

Sun, Jan 22 2012, 12:00 pm

WriterMom wrote:

Mrs Bissli wrote:

My initial reaction too.

Same here.

They obviously know you are not on the same level as they are and therefore by agreeing to go to such a place they know that anyone can order anything.
If you understand what you are doing and I am sure you have your reasonings behind it, then why feel uncomfortable? If they would have felt strange they would have said something to you.

Now hooka...that sounds like something I would like to try LOL

amother

Sun, Jan 22 2012, 1:05 pm

chocolate moose wrote:

freidasima wrote:

Why is it worse to eat potential bugs which at least in size are hopefully botel beshishim

Bugs are not botul. You can't be mevatel an issur melechatchila.

Can't OP check her salad for bugs once she gets it? If she asks for dressing on the side, she can certainly give the salad a once-over and look for bugs. Obviously, she can't soak and rinse and check like she would if she were at home, but I wouldn't automatically assume OP was eating bug salad.

Raisin

Sun, Jan 22 2012, 1:27 pm

just because I might have a drink in a place like starbucks or a pub, doesn't mean I would order non kosher food from the menu. There is no aveira in sitting in a place that serves among other things non kosher food. The aveira is in eating it.

Yes, I do think it is rude to do what you did. And before going to such a place, why not eat at home or in a kosher eatery?

freidasima

Sun, Jan 22 2012, 1:31 pm

If it is not a bug that one can see with a naked eye there is a machlokes among poskim - so I was taught. Some say that it is still a bug (hence the machlokes about the thirps on strawberries that can't be seen with the naked eye) and some say that if it is so small it is not a bug, and a third group says that if it is so small it can't be seen with the naked eye it is botel beshishim if it is not done milechaschila. Meaning not saying, "ok I don't see anything so I don't have to bother to even wash off the lettuce leaf" kind of stuff.

So I was taught.