Spin off of 100K for shidduchim

watergirl

Sat, Dec 26 2015, 6:09 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

Do you personally know of someone that asked for tzedakah so they can buy jewelry, a fancy house or make a lavish wedding? I don't.

I do. There are many hachnasas kallah funds in NY that provide the "basics" to kallahs who cant afford... The basics are inline with what the rest of the 19 year old kallahs get in their neighborhoods. Ya know, the basics. Bosch, dining room sets, bedroom sets... And they provide the basic jewelry. Rings, necklace, earrings, bracelet.
Ive been told that this stuff is basic but I dont know anyone in oot places who cinsider these things basic. Most of my friends and people I know managed to get married with the bare minimum. Dining room set? We all enjoyed curb side specials until we could afford it.

Another mom

Sat, Dec 26 2015, 6:25 pm

Ruchel wrote:

One of the reasons I don't give tzedaka to those who buy apartments etc.

But how do you know what they need it for? You ask? I'm happy to help a family to make a simple wedding or bare necessities for the home (like blankets...) but an apt.??
My son, who lived in a caravan asked a father:"But why are u collecting here for a house if I myself are living in a caravan?" The guy just shrugged or something. IMO it's not fair.

harriet

Sat, Dec 26 2015, 7:15 pm

watergirl wrote:

Can I ask which hachnasos kallahs give jewelry?

amother

Periwinkle

Sat, Dec 26 2015, 8:32 pm

Heyaaa wrote:

These meshulachim don't make as much as you think. I believe they have to pay their drivers a significant amount of what they earn and they can drive around for hours and not make any money and they also have to pay for plane tickets. Could be some do get rich but most don't. The only real way to get a lot of money by collecting is if you are close with wealthy people. And if you are close you don't need to go to America to schnorr door to door.

They make plenty. They make enough for the same ones to keep coming back.

amother

Sapphire

Sat, Dec 26 2015, 10:25 pm

amother wrote:

That's something their leaders have to decide. But if they can't afford whatever it is the community expects them to put forth (ridiculous or not), this girl won't get married.

As an example, dh used to give money to a man who would come to dh frequently on Thursday nights, telling him that he had no food for Shabbos. Dh would give him enough that he could have a really nice Shabbos with good chicken and everything else he would need for a family of 8 kids. At first I got annoyed because this guy truthfully is really irresponsible and that's why he could never afford Shabbos. Then I realized that whether or not this guy is a moron (he's not but say he was), these kids still need to eat. Not giving him food for Shabbos on a Thursday night is not going to teach him responsibility but it will make his kids starve.

It's the same thing here because it's one thing to disagree with the principle of it but it's another to refuse to give money to the guy at your door as a political statement. The fact is he's in the community and now he's stuck. This is the only way his daughter will get married.

Do you really believe they won't find a shidduch? where's bitachon that Hashem and not people make shidduchim!

amother

Sapphire

Sat, Dec 26 2015, 10:27 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

There is an inyan that you are supposed to give an an עני according to his needs. Look up the gemara about a poor person who asked for a full chicken and fancy wine.
You don't have to give but it definitely considered tzedakah to give someone the same as e/o has by a wedding.

I heard that it's an inyan to give someone who was previously rich and no longer, and was used to a lavish lifestyle, things he was used to, not sure if this applies to everyone.

amother

Sapphire

Sat, Dec 26 2015, 10:31 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

Do you personally know of someone that asked for tzedakah so they can buy jewelry, a fancy house or make a lavish wedding? I don't.

They aren't going to tell you that part of it is going to those expenses according to the post in the other

gold21

Sat, Dec 26 2015, 10:40 pm

November wrote:

I know someone who went door to door collecting for a down payment on an apartment in Israel. He knew that otherwise, the shidduch for his daughter would not have happened.

He could have looked for a shidduch in less yeshivish cookie cutter circles....

I understand he felt like he was between a rock and a hard place, and im sure he didnt enjoy going collecting for funds, but I think its sad that these people cant find a way to buck the system instead of buying right into it. I mean, why is he marrying his daughter into a system that requires him to go collecting door to door? Not very smart.

amother

Goldenrod

Sat, Dec 26 2015, 11:32 pm

harriet wrote:

Can I ask which hachnasos kallahs give jewelry?

I was once invited to an boutique kind of event to raise money for an organization that gives money to Chassanim to buy jewelry for their Kallahs. I did not attend (not that I am the type to attend such things to begin with).

That said, my husband has a close friend, a tremendous Talmid Chochum, who has a difficult family situation and his parents have little money. My husband sends him money every couple of months and considers it a privilege to support a special person like him. When this guy got engaged, I mentioned to my husband to make sure that he spoke to him about getting his Kallah something, not something especially fancy or expensive, just something that she could say was from her Chosson. And for my husband to give him the money if need be so that he could buy her something (this was the kind of guy who my husband used to take and buy shoes for him, that's how much he didn't have). This guys Kallah though was very insistent that she did not want any jewelry from him, only a Korban Mincha siddur.but this guy did actually have jewelry from a deceased family member that was intended for him to give to his bride, and this very special girl told him that if it was family jewelry then she would gladly take it as a symbol of being welcome into his family.

Anon to protect my identity and the identity of this wonderful couple.

notshanarishona

Sun, Dec 27 2015, 12:49 am

WhatFor wrote:

I'm so curious how much money is made over what period of time. I'm assuming this is netting more than the collector would earn if they simply took up a job in Israel?

Do you know what the average Israeli salary is?

For someone who makes minimum wage, it's about $1000 a month if they work full time. And unfortunately , minimum wage or a few nis over minimum wage is very common because the job market is difficult.
Even someone where both parents work full time low income jobs can end up needing tzedakah in times where they need more I.e. making a chassunah or big medical expense.

5mom

Sun, Dec 27 2015, 1:05 am

notshanarishona wrote:

Do you know what the average Israeli salary is?

For someone who makes minimum wage, it's about $1000 a month if they work full time. And unfortunately, minimum wage or a few nis over minimum wage is very common because the job market is difficult.
Even someone where both parents work full time low income jobs can end up needing tzedakah in times where they need more I.e. making a chassunah or big medical expense.

The average Israeli salary is nearly twice the minimum wage.

In nonreligious circles, it's expected that wedding guests give a cash gift that covers their costs. And given the system of socialized medicine, catastrophic medical expenses are pretty rare. (Not unheard of, but unusual.)

I'm not saying that it's all roses, but it's not all thorns, either.

WhatFor

Sun, Dec 27 2015, 1:20 am

notshanarishona wrote:

Yes, but how much are they earning over here? Excuse my ignorance, but I don't have people knocking on my door, so I'm genuinely curious. Are there people who actually give tens of thousands of dollars to strangers knocking on their doors? If not, how much collecting must be done to earn this? Over what period of time? For someone who has ten children, how many hours of collecting must they do to pay half the money for ten houses? At what point would it begin to make sense for their marriage-age children to begin working to offset their parents' collecting? I guess my question is, yes, I get that people are collecting to try to make this work, but is this really working? And if it is, is this a long-term plan? Will the children buying houses with the money that their fathers collected in America also then go to America to collect money for houses when their own children grow up? (Not to mention that the next generation will consist of more people requiring support, and the younger generation of "donors" will probably have less savings to give, due to the student debt more of them will have as well as the recession and high unemployment rate.)

5mom

Sun, Dec 27 2015, 2:05 am

notshanarishona wrote:

I should have written average Chareidi salary. Obviously if you include richer neighborhoods and people with higher level degree's it is different than the typical Orthodox couple .

http://www.ynetnews.com/articl......html

First - please don't use "typical Orthodox" as a synonym for Charedi. There are Orthodox Jews who are not Charedi.

Second - you are saying what many of us know. Education is a good way to prevent poverty. It isn't Israel's fault that Charedim are not availing themselves of opportunities. In the US, where Charedi schools offer some degree of secular education, incomes are higher.

The issue is not Israel. It's the behavior of some of the people who live in Israel.

Heyaaa

Sun, Dec 27 2015, 2:11 am

5mom wrote:

The issue is the leaders. The leaders tell them that leaving their group will earn them hell. So their stuck. If you want to complain about the situation, complain that the leaders are blind and refuse to lead their communities in a way that is beneficial for the followers. But it's not fair to complain about the guy at your door for not doing anything to change his situation, when he's been religiously blackmailed into believing there's no other choice.

Heyaaa

Sun, Dec 27 2015, 2:16 am

5mom wrote:

Dhs friends daughter had cancer and the treatment she needed, yes Meuhedet would cover but there was a six months waiting list to do it through the kuppah.

So either she could wait out the next six months and hope the cancer doesn't progress too aggressively in the meanwhile or she could go private. Bh dh knows some wealthy people. After a few phone calls, he was able to raise enough money to go private.

So having socialized medicine is helpful but it doesn't mean you never have to pay for medical treatment.

Heyaaa

Sun, Dec 27 2015, 2:22 am

gold21 wrote:

Telling him that his daughter should marry a less yeshivish person is just setting her up for divorce. You need to marry someone who is compatible. Someone who gets your way of life and your values. It's like if your parents were trying to save money so they told you that you can only marry someone from bnei braq or Meah Shearim. I don't know you not do I know your hashkafa but I imagine you'd tell your parents nice try.

Again, complain about the leaders. The leaders tell them this way of life is the only way to get olam haba. So they don't have a choice. They could suck up the frustrating and embarrassing and even ridiculous rules of the community but believe that at least they're going to olam haba or they can leave that lifestyle and believe that they're giving up their eternity.