Just wondering | Imamother

amother

Jade

Mon, Jul 09 2018, 8:22 am

With visiting day past us I'm wondering what you think. It's always interesting to me that people are quick to tip their kids counselors, waiters, etc. for one or two months that they work with their children but people have a hard time showing recognition to the those who have been teaching their children for ten months and do a whole lot more for them. Some camps recommend tips that are a lot more than what is recommended when collecting for Chanukah gifts in school and people give it so freely. Can anyone explain.

Simple1

Mon, Jul 09 2018, 8:32 am

I give tips because they are requested by the camp and amounts are listed. There's no guessing. The girls are not being paid (or barely so) and I don't want them to be shortchanged.

Teachers I assume agree to the terms of a job before they take it. And even though the pay is not the highest, many like the perks that come with the job - ex, easier schedule than office job.

I do give at Chanukah via collection and a MM Purim time.

thunderstorm

Mon, Jul 09 2018, 8:42 am

Simple1 wrote:

In my schools tips for Rebbes are requested too, specifically Purim. They don't say how much it should be though.

amother

Chartreuse

Mon, Jul 09 2018, 8:45 am

Tips are for untrained low-wage workers and salaries are for professionals.

Teachers are professionals and counselors are kids. I tip my garbage collector, but not my accountant.

Not tipping teachers doesn't mean I don't value them. (I'm MO, teachers aren't tipped in my world.) It means I see them as professionals. I may write a note or give a small gift, but even a gift is a little odd in my circles. I realize that's not universal, as there was just a thread about a gift for a doctor. Though if I can recall, most responders thought a gift was inappropriate.

ETA, when I was a counselor in camp, we were not allowed to take tips. A parent who wanted to show appreciation could buy a sefer for the camp's beit midrash and donate it in your honor.

amother

Blue

Mon, Jul 09 2018, 8:47 am

amother wrote:

The entire tipping practice should be eliminated.

That solves it.

Chayalle

Mon, Jul 09 2018, 8:50 am

Simple1 wrote:

Not only are counselors not paid by the camp - in some camps they actually have to pay a fee (though it's much less than the camper fee). They usually break even or come out a bit ahead with tips.

amother

Wine

Mon, Jul 09 2018, 8:51 am

DH and I feel that the counselors are the ones that are actually responsible for our kids. The camp staff is amazing, but how will they know if my DC hurt himself, lost his clothing, needs help changing linen and packing when it's time to go home. It up to the counselor to notice these things, hopefully, and assist. They are my kids 24 hour babysitters. My kids officially can only call home on Friday, yet the counselor finds a way if they want to call home in between.

A rebbe, no matter how amazing he is, will call the parents when he has a hard time with behavior or other things. The parents are still required to parent, even while the kids are in yeshiva.

anon for this

Mon, Jul 09 2018, 9:05 am

amother wrote:

The MO schools my kids have attended have all solicited chanuka gifts for the teachers. Do your kids' schools not do this?

amother

Puce

Mon, Jul 09 2018, 9:10 am

Some people do it because there's a written request, not because of some overwhelming feeling of gratitude. Those who genuinely feel the hakaras hatov generally show the same to the teachers.

I'm a therapist and I've worked with some children for years, without so much as a thank you from the parents. I'm sure they tip/gift when requested, but that's obviously not going to be the case for a therapist. Shrug. They just don't think about it much.

amother

Chartreuse

Mon, Jul 09 2018, 9:11 am

anon for this wrote:

The MO schools my kids have attended have all solicited chanuka gifts for the teachers. Do your kids' schools not do this?

Yes, you're right. Thanks for reminding me. The PTA arranged Channukah presents, but no matter who gave what, the present (a gift certificate) was a gift from the class. No money went directly from parent to teacher. And nothing on Purim. Also, male and female teachers got the same amounts.

amother

Jade

Mon, Jul 09 2018, 9:29 am

So basically the concensus is that teachers/ Rebbeim are "professionals" and as such don't deserve recognition but counselors are entitled to tips because they are underpaid and there for your kids 24/7 for one or two months and expect to be tipped to compensate for the fact that they either have to pay to come to camp or get paid so little.
Ok so then please remember this come September: Think twice before bothering your child's Rebbi or Teacher after hours unless it's urgent as they have families that need them for the few hours they're home. Keep in mind that your children do spend most of their waking hours with their Rebbeim and teachers. Please arrive on time to PTA meetings so as not to delay the schedule so the Teacher/Rebbi can get home at a normal hour. Please rememeber that your child is one of many other children in the class- keep that in mind when a Rebbi or teacher calls you during the year. When he or she hangs up she is making another call followed by another call...and often these calls are done a few times a year. They don't get paid enough for all they do and yes they go into the field knowing what their responsibilities are and no there really aren't too many perks when it comes to being a teacher or a Rebbi- a flexible schdule is about the only perk they get. So tell me when was the last time you got a call from a counselor in camp to give you nachas or to address a concern?

flowerpower

Mon, Jul 09 2018, 9:36 am

I tip teachers/rebbes twice a year
I tip rebbe/counselors/bus drivers at the end of the summer

I saw some suggested pricing for tips for certain day camps/ sleep away camps and thought it was a bit too generous- if a mother sends two kids to day camp and two kids to camp she needs to get another job just to pay all those “suggested tips” for each kid!

anon for this

Mon, Jul 09 2018, 9:45 am

amother wrote:

Yes, exactly. The more yeshivish schools my kids have attended list suggested tips and pool gifts for general studies teachers and for all the girls' teachers, and parents tip only rebbeim directly. Parents are encouraged to give larger gifts to rebbeim. I am bothered by the inequality in gifts also, although I greatly appreciate the efforts made by rebbeim, because rebbeim are paid much more than girls' teachers to begin with.

Right, Purim gifts/ mishloach manot for teachers aren't a thing at my kids MO schools either.

amother

Seafoam

Mon, Jul 09 2018, 10:40 am

Simple1 wrote:

see the bolded above...
why would you think that a teacher has an easier schedule than somebody with an office job?! Any quality teacher spends hours preparing classes, worksheets, tests etc, grading tests, writing report cards, emailing or talking on the phone with students parents, having staff meetings, etc. My husband has been in chinuch for over 15 years, and believe me its harder than being in an office job. He brings his work home with him.And he is in school 7.45 - 4.45 btw. Which is longer than a 9-5 office job. My husband is always busy preparing classes or on the phone to a parent just when I wish he could hold a crying baby or help wth bedtime. Your statement above (bolded) is absoltuely totally inaccurate!

amother

Blue

Mon, Jul 09 2018, 10:45 am

amother wrote:

No. Tipping isn't recognition. Recognition is a well worded thank-you letter, perhaps with a 'token' gift. Or a letter to the administration regarding the teacher. Teachers are paid by the school - their employer.

This business of tipping counselors is apparently to make up for the fact that camp tuition isn't sufficient to pay them a good amount. The set-up that the counselors should work hard to get tips personally leaves a bad taste in my mouth. They should be 'good' because they are hired to 'be good'. They also work for the camp - not the parents. Once they start to think they work for the parents - things become equitable very quickly.

amother

Blue

Mon, Jul 09 2018, 10:48 am

amother wrote:

I think you have a jadded idea of what an office job entails. Those 9-5 workers are't doing all that well.

amother

Seafoam

Mon, Jul 09 2018, 10:49 am

My husband is a rebbi in a camp this year. The learning director told him he should make sure to call or email parents to tell them how well their kid is doing, and then they are likely to give him bigger tips! my husband was really turned off by that, he said there's no way he will do that just to get tips, its not a business, hes just trying to teach Torah!

amother

Chartreuse

Mon, Jul 09 2018, 10:52 am

Nobody works 9 to 5 in 2018.

Of course teachers should be treated with respect. No one forces young people into chinuch, and no one forces older teachers to stay if they get burnt out. Low salaries are a problem, but that's supply and demand, not the fault of the parents.