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Roommates and covid
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amother




OP
 

Post  Tue, Dec 01 2020, 11:07 pm
Gotta follow the logic and would like advice please...

DS is renting an apt. with 3 other bochrim. One just tested positive for covid. DS was not exposed to him. The Covid person at the moment left the apt. and is staying at a hotel. #2 bochur has family nearby and he went there. #3 bochur was exposed and is waiting for results while quarantining in the apt. but not soley in his room he is walking around the apt and there is only one bathroom. DS had been exposed to #3 if that bochur has it then DS will need to quarantine and get tested.

In the meantime... the #1 bochur with Covid wants to come back to the apt. because he does not want to pay for a hotel. DS says he read halachically the person has a right to come back to the apt. I say go ask a Rav, but personally I really don't think that is right to put the two other people out. Plus this bochur chose to stay at an expensive hotel. I also don't think he should be leaving that hotel room at this point...

Hopefully #3 bochur will be negative, in the meantime I told ds he must wear a mask in the apt. and should not hang out with #3 bochur, even though he was already exposed to him becuase even if he has it, doesn't mean ds has caught it yet.

FYI- only bochur #2 has family nearby.

Now let's say bochur #3 is positive- what does ds do??? No one will want him becuase he has now been exposed. I don't want him staying in the apt. with the possibility of him catching it.

The whole thing is so confusing.

The craziest part is ds just joined this apt. and they were afraid to let him come in until he quarantined somewhere else after quarantining in our house , had a negative b/c he traveled on a bus. Mind you the other bochurim travel on the subway to school and work. The guy who got covid most likely picked it up last week when he went home to MA and came back to NY (cuz you don't have to quarantine from MA according to Cuomo- makes no sense, but that is another story) and after 3 days of chills and aches decided to get tested.

So... Hopefully the #3 is negative, but should ds move out? Does the covid bochur have a right to come back if two people are negative?

If #3 is positive does DS move out and quarantine somewhere else??

I am so confused!
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amother




Coral
 

Post  Tue, Dec 01 2020, 11:58 pm
NYC has free covid hotels. Sounds like this Is the situation that needs to utilize them.
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DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Dec 02 2020, 12:39 am
Bachor#1 (the person who tested positive) should stay put or he should apply to be transferred to a covid hotel if he cannot stay where he is (why did he pick an expensive hotel if he cannot afford it?)

Everybody else should quarantine like they are supposed to. People who are supposed to be in quarantine should not be moving around and changing locations like they change socks.
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amother




Periwinkle
 

Post  Wed, Dec 02 2020, 6:35 am
amother [ Coral ] wrote:
NYC has free covid hotels. Sounds like this Is the situation that needs to utilize them.


For some reason, I assumed the kids are in Israel
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amother




Mustard
 

Post  Wed, Dec 02 2020, 7:01 am
Uh...in a roommate situation where people share an apartment it is considered that your roommates are your family and you are all in it together.
If they all equally pay rent then the house belongs to all of them. And they are each free to live there as they choose. The covid bochur has every right to come back to his own home. The fact that he was staying in a hotel previous is none of your business.
Now he knows he's positive and he will likely stay in the apartment in quarantine there.

Your son is free to stay in the apartment if he chooses and risk being exposed or he is free to go elsewhere if he doesn't want to take that risk. But you cannot tell an equally paying apartment mate that he can or cannot come home to his own house. They are considered a "family" now or a pod or whatever you want to call it.

If this were your own home and one of your kids got sick do you tell your child sorry but your not allowed into the house until you are symptom free ?
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sequoia




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Dec 02 2020, 7:47 am
Yeah, roommates are a unit...

Although, recently, my friend’s roommate got it and willingly went to quarantine somewhere else. But he had that option. Neither my friend nor I got it (we continued hanging out like normal).

Sometimes mental health takes precedence.
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notshanarishona




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Dec 02 2020, 7:50 am
Going to a hotel with covid is not really fair to do to the hotel staff. There are 2 different questions- technically what should be done and what is the right thing to do. Legally if they are all equal roommates everyone has a right to live there.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, Dec 02 2020, 8:00 am
amother [ Coral ] wrote:
NYC has free covid hotels. Sounds like this Is the situation that needs to utilize them.


Thanks!!!!!
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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, Dec 02 2020, 8:04 am
amother [ Mustard ] wrote:
Uh...in a roommate situation where people share an apartment it is considered that your roommates are your family and you are all in it together.
If they all equally pay rent then the house belongs to all of them. And they are each free to live there as they choose. The covid bochur has every right to come back to his own home. The fact that he was staying in a hotel previous is none of your business.
Now he knows he's positive and he will likely stay in the apartment in quarantine there.

Your son is free to stay in the apartment if he chooses and risk being exposed or he is free to go elsewhere if he doesn't want to take that risk. But you cannot tell an equally paying apartment mate that he can or cannot come home to his own house. They are considered a "family" now or a pod or whatever you want to call it.

If this were your own home and one of your kids got sick do you tell your child sorry but your not allowed into the house until you are symptom free ?


while I agree with the overall point. The bochur who has covid did not follow the podding rules when he went away for Thanksgiving.

I believe the situation is different with your own children as the house would all be quarantining and the child with covid would be staying in his room not wandering around the apt. or house. if there was only one bathroom everything would be cleaned b4 after that person would use it.
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DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Dec 03 2020, 4:36 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
while I agree with the overall point. The bochur who has covid did not follow the podding rules when he went away for Thanksgiving.

Wait, bochum #1 went home for Thanksgiving knowing full well that he was an active covid patient???
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WitchKitty




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Dec 03 2020, 5:23 pm
Y'know, I love this forum. I learn to be thankful for so many things that I never thought of before! For example, the fact that I have nice relatives.
My relatives, as opposed to some people here, would not come into my house if they had covid.

Really. I think that post is one of the most stupid that I have ever read. Why are family allowed to make other people sick? When I'm sick, with things that are much less contagious than covid, I clean whatever I touch and try not to get to close to people. If someone has covid they should quarantine. You can quarantine in the apartment if you want. But quarantine. That means do not leave your room, use a separate bathroom. Clean everything that gets out.
What does "family" have to do with anything???
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amother




Magenta
 

Post  Thu, Dec 03 2020, 5:24 pm
Many roommates I know are a unit and treat their families like any 'other' people they would/would not choose to expose or be exposed to. In best case scenarios, everyone was on the same page about how careful they are being. Other situations have led to apartments breaking up.
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amother




Chartreuse
 

Post  Thu, Dec 03 2020, 5:28 pm
DrMom wrote:
Wait, bochum #1 went home for Thanksgiving knowing full well that he was an active covid patient???


No, OP things he picked it up when he was home.
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seeker




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Dec 03 2020, 7:00 pm
Almost this exact situation was in Hamodia's Business Halacha Weekly column last week! (or maybe it was the week before?) The bottom line was that the Covid patient could stay in the shared apartment and if the non-covid roommate wants to go somewhere else then it is at his own expense because the Covid kid is not doing anything other than living in his home as usual.

HOWEVER I would seriously as a rav if it changes anything that the kid went home for Thanksgiving against rational advice and caught it there. How long after Thanksgiving did he come down with it? Did someone he spent Thanksgiving with have it? Meaning is it clear that this is how he caught it?
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tichellady




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Dec 03 2020, 7:11 pm
amother [ Mustard ] wrote:
Uh...in a roommate situation where people share an apartment it is considered that your roommates are your family and you are all in it together.
If they all equally pay rent then the house belongs to all of them. And they are each free to live there as they choose. The covid bochur has every right to come back to his own home. The fact that he was staying in a hotel previous is none of your business.
Now he knows he's positive and he will likely stay in the apartment in quarantine there.

Your son is free to stay in the apartment if he chooses and risk being exposed or he is free to go elsewhere if he doesn't want to take that risk. But you cannot tell an equally paying apartment mate that he can or cannot come home to his own house. They are considered a "family" now or a pod or whatever you want to call it.

If this were your own home and one of your kids got sick do you tell your child sorry but your not allowed into the house until you are symptom free ?


Actually everyone I know who has a sick family member with covid does try to isolate that family member as much as possible within reason. Obviously not possible with a young child but a married couple can easily wear masks and sleep in a different room etc so that the other person may have else exposure.
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tichellady




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Dec 03 2020, 7:12 pm
seeker wrote:
Almost this exact situation was in Hamodia's Business Halacha Weekly column last week! (or maybe it was the week before?) The bottom line was that the Covid patient could stay in the shared apartment and if the non-covid roommate wants to go somewhere else then it is at his own expense because the Covid kid is not doing anything other than living in his home as usual.

HOWEVER I would seriously as a rav if it changes anything that the kid went home for Thanksgiving against rational advice and caught it there. How long after Thanksgiving did he come down with it? Did someone he spent Thanksgiving with have it? Meaning is it clear that this is how he caught it?


There is Halacha and there is being a decent human being
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dancingqueen




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Dec 03 2020, 7:50 pm
notshanarishona wrote:
Going to a hotel with covid is not really fair to do to the hotel staff. There are 2 different questions- technically what should be done and what is the right thing to do. Legally if they are all equal roommates everyone has a right to live there.


Yeah I’m honestly surprised this guy was running around town with covid. Your son should get tested as well.
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seeker




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Dec 03 2020, 8:08 pm
tichellady wrote:
There is Halacha and there is being a decent human being

And then there is halacha to tell you how far you need to go to be decent. Expecting someone to move out of their place of residence which they paid to inhabit is exactly the kind of borderline/complex question that bears asking.
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amother




Sienna
 

Post  Thu, Dec 03 2020, 8:47 pm
seeker wrote:
And then there is halacha to tell you how far you need to go to be decent. Expecting someone to move out of their place of residence which they paid to inhabit is exactly the kind of borderline/complex question that bears asking.


Context is everything. It's not a simple asking someone to move out of their residence. It's asking someone who defied all the precautions to absorb the consequences of his own actions. If he had stayed put and gotten sick, I don't think the OP would be taken such issue with this situation. This one boy decided to bypass the precautions for his personal enjoyment, caught the virus and is now asking the other roommates to bear the consequences of his actions.

If you're comparing it to family - if a child of mine defied instructions not to go to a party, and then became sick, I'd be expecting him to stay quarantined in his room - away from all other family members. True, the rest of the family would probably have to quarantine too, but the rest of the family should have free rein of the rest of the house, and this one child should be quarantined in his room.

This boy is already out of the apartment, he is not on the street. He should either go to a free Covid hotel, or bear the costly expense of his action. The other boys probably need to quarantine too, but they don't need to be in tight quarters, continuously being exposed to someone who is contagious. If the apartment is big enough for him to have his own room, and he can be trusted to stay locked in there, then he should be allowed back. Otherwise, he should stay put in his hotel room until he is no longer contagious.

He should have thought about all this before his Thanksgiving trip. If he did, then he was aware of the ramifications, and he willingly accepted the risks. If he laughed at it all, then he's realizing he made a mistake. Risks & mistakes often come with consequences, it's an important life lesson to learn.
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seeker




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Dec 03 2020, 8:54 pm
We don't know that "he defied all precautions" and we don't even know yet whether there was a direct COVID contact in his Thanksgiving place that is responsible for this. Unless I missed something.

Could be the onus is on him. All I'm saying is that it's a question that bears asking. The statement "who needs halacha when it's OBVIOUS that there is only one decent thing to do" is inherently flawed; different people are going to have different "obvious" conclusions and that's why we have a system of decision-making assistance.
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