Considering leaving NY - where to?

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 3:34 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Openminded about specifics, but it needs to be someplace with a frum community. If in Israel, cost is a big worry so we'd need to consider more options. Ideally in/near Jerusalem and at least some frum English speakers. In in the US, someplace affordable and friendly, but I'm strongly leaning toward Aliyah if we can make it work. It's the only move I would make to go TO somewhere instead of running FROM somewhere. The costs and inconveniences of a harder day to day life scare me.

What inconveniences are you thinking about? There are many israeli olot here on this site that can hopefully help ease that worry.
And costs, of what, moving? Youd have that anywhere.
You said in a different reply that you are yeshivish. So if that is the case, the ramat beit shemesh alep is probably your best bet. Many yeshivish olim families there.

moonstone

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 3:38 am

amother [ Cyan ] wrote:

If you are picking up and moving anyway, come to Israel. Because, you know, Hashem.

Hashem is everywhere, last time I checked.

amother

Cyan

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 3:46 am

moonstone wrote:

Hashem is everywhere, last time I checked.

Yeah, but last time I checked, He gave us the Land of Israel as an inheritance, and it merits special attention.

"ארץ אשר ה' אלוקיך דרש אתה תמיד עיני ה' אלוקיך בה מרשית השנה ועד אחרית שנה:"

DrMom

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 3:48 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Mostly I'm worried about the bill going to the governor on Wednesday about detaining individuals and groups deemed a public safety threat. Wording is scarily vague and can easily be abused and lead to full on detention camps. No trivial thing at all. If you're not worried, think about neighbors tattling on the Jews for having a wedding and then the roundups of Jews for spreading the virus, and who is to decide which people are a threat and why? Can be detained indefinitely in a medical facility or whatever other facility the governor decides. Speed limits are fine. Detention camps are not.

If you are looking for places with very few corona-related restrictions, don't come to Israel.

Our lockdowns, imperfect as they may be, are way more restrictive then what is happening in the US. If you are not inclined to follow these sorts of public health measures, please don't come here.

amother

Cerise

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 4:34 am

DrMom wrote:

This. I live in Israel, I love Israel, but it's not the place to escape restrictive covid laws.
Our phones were (are?) tracked to see if we were near someone with covid.
People were (for a while) forcibly removed from the airport to go to hostels for quarantine.
My preteen dd got fined for walking around outside with the mask hanging off her chin.
IF you ask me, our restrictions right now are NOT tough enough, and this third lockdown is a joke of a lockdown, and I hope they will toughen up soon. But Israel is not the place to escape to if you want freedom to do what you want regarding covid.

amother

Tangerine

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 5:59 am

people are fleeing CA
high prohibitive cost of living
gavin newsome -- horrid policies
legislature decriminalizing sxl molestation of children
horrid policies regarding education
high taxes and overregulation

in US people are going to FL, nashville, Tx -- places where economy is open with protocols, one can make a living, and policies are balanced and taxes lower, life is not over regulated nanny state

and aliyah is up

amother

Turquoise

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 6:29 am

I just can’t believe how many women here are so oblivious to the real facts.
The proof is everywhere and it’s so terrifying.

If you want to be ignorant, that’s ok.
Stay if you’d like, I’m staying as well for now, and keeping my eyes open very wide, but don’t discourage OP from doing the right thing.

amother

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 8:25 am

OMG I’m not anti Covid safety!!! That’s not what this is about and actually we’re very careful about keeping the rules. What I’m concerned about are how the situation has been exploited to hurt the Jewish community in NY. I’m seeing increasingly bad signs about how the Jews are being treated here. Take the specifics to the politics forum if you want, but don’t accuse me of being flippant about Covid safety and just wanting to do whatever I want. That’s not what this is about at all.

LovesHashem

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 8:29 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Israel's got plenty of problems, yes. But at the end of the day it's the Jewish homeland and it's not about to turn against the Jews.

Yes but please be aware you don't have freedoms or rights. There's no declaration of independence or bill of rights.

If you post a negative review or write something publicly negative in Israel against a person or business you can be sued. There's no freedom of speech.

LovesHashem

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 8:31 am

amother [ Cerise ] wrote:

There are tightening restrictions within the week probably.

Currently "essential" businesses are allowed to remain open. DH was surprised to find ice cream stores on the list of "essential places" - I reminded him that he's a man not a woman. Ice cream is 100% essential for women.

amother

Cerise

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 8:34 am

LovesHashem wrote:

Yes but please be aware you don't have freedoms or rights. There's no declaration of independence or bill of rights.

.

As someone who has lived in Israel many years, I disagree.
I certainly have freedoms and rights here!

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 8:37 am

LovesHashem wrote:

Lovehashem, of course we ave freedoms and rights. Just because we dont have a declaration of independence and bill of rights does not in any way mean we do not have freedoms and rights.
Ive lived here a long time, my entire adult life and I have never felt what you are saying. We dont live in a communist country or a war torn country where there are no rights or freedoms.

LovesHashem

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 8:50 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

It's not communism but if a police officer fines you for something you didn't do - its' your word against his. You will likely have to pay it. Again, no freedom of speech. Technically from what I understand even the freedom to gather and protest can be taken away if the government feels necessary due to COVID.

We have rights somewhat but it's different than in the USA. I'm just sayin if you are one of those people saying "It's my american right not to wear a mask and carry a gun" that doesn't neccesarily work that way here.

amother

Firebrick

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 9:18 am

LovesHashem wrote:

"rights somewhat"?

I have the right as a Jew to live there. That's a biggie.

The bundle of rights offered to Americans - is different that what is offered in Israel.

LovesHashem

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 9:22 am

amother [ Firebrick ] wrote:

"rights somewhat"?

I have the right as a Jew to live there. That's a biggie.

The bundle of rights offered to Americans - is different that what is offered in Israel.

Oh I agree. I'd pick Israel any day over NY. I love it here.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 9:24 am

LovesHashem wrote:

Im sorry but LoveHashem, we have rights. Full stop. You are living, breathing, working, living, working, doing all sorts of other things, right? We have many rights in this country.
Yes, we have to bill of rights, but neither do many other countries as well. That does not mean we have no rights.

DrMom

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 9:26 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Sorry I misunderstood. You mentioned the "constant threats to shut down yeshivas" and I assumed you thought that schools should never be shut down for epidemiological reasons.

DrMom

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 9:29 am

LovesHashem wrote:

Freedom of speech has nothing to do with your scenario about police fines.

And the govt has deliberately gone way out of its way to NOT shut down protests, even at the height of the pandemic.

The freedoms and rights work differently here than in the US, but to say that Israeli citizens have no freedoms and rights is pure nonsense.

amother

Seagreen

Tue, Jan 05 2021, 9:35 am

We were looking to move a little while back. We are currently not moving, but when we do we will consider Phoenix, Orlando, Jacksonville, and maybe Houston or Dallas.