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Is this stealing? WWYD? Update
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Jan 09 2021, 2:39 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Stores that steal and have awful service don't deserve our support and protection. They should be driven out of business.
I'm not bad mouthing them, just sharing my experience.


OP, I agree with you completely! THOU SHALL NOT STEAL is one of the Big 10.

Maybe this should be a spinoff, but why do we hold frum businesses to a LOWER standard? Why do frum people get a pass to break the law, especially when it comes to money? Mad
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amother




Lemon
 

Post  Sat, Jan 09 2021, 7:40 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I'm not deliberately going around a telling everyone to stay away. But if the store happens to come up in a discussion, I relate what happened.


What they did to you was wrong and I'm sure you're very upset. I don't quite understand why you don't want to go through beis din but you don't have to if you don't want to. As far as telling people what they did, no matter how justified you feel that would be- you still need to ask your Rav if you can tell people and what you can say.
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notshanarishona




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Jan 09 2021, 7:44 pm
amother [ Lemon ] wrote:
What they did to you was wrong and I'm sure you're very upset. I don't quite understand why you don't want to go through beis din but you don't have to if you don't want to. As far as telling people what they did, no matter how justified you feel that would be- you still need to ask your Rav if you can tell people and what you can say.


Going through a beis din costs money typically and is very time consuming. I could see why people would hesitate. I would sooner ask a rav if you are ok to leave them negative reviews, typically I have been told that its ok if you tried to deal with them and are only reporting facts but ask your lor.
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naturalmom5




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Jan 09 2021, 8:50 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I don't think it's against halacha to relate bad experience we had with a store if it comes up in a discussion. If we keep on protecting these stores in the name of lashon hora, nothing will stop them from continuing their stealing and awful service.


The point everyone is trying to make is that LH or avak LH is ossur until you get a psak ...

A Din Torah is 100% ok

If you dont want to go that route

Maybe take something else from store that you can sell on ebay
Move on lesson learned!!!

Time and stress counts for something too
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amother




Jade
 

Post  Sat, Jan 09 2021, 9:09 pm
allthingsblue wrote:
Again, why not resolve it in a halachically acceptable manner?

It may well be lashon hora to say what happened when if the store comes up in discussion.


Bais Din is not free.
They charge money.
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zaq




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Jan 09 2021, 9:20 pm
It is legal to have a policy not to give cash refunds but only store credit, but if that is the case, they are legally required to post that policy where it's visible to customers.

This from https://www.termsfeed.com/blog.....ase.:


New Jersey retailers must post their Return & Refund Policy conspicuously.

If one is not posted, then the retailer must allow returns, issue refunds or provide store credit for any merchandise submitted within 20 days of purchase.

The policy must contain certain specific information such as whether refunds will be given for items without a proof of purchase, products returned after a particular period of time, and products sold "as is" or on sale. It must make it clear how refunds will be issued (cash, store credit, etc.).

New York
Every New York retailer must conspicuously post its Return & Refund Policy.

If a retailer from New York does not provide a Return & Refund Policy, then the retailer is required to accept returns and issue refunds for all merchandise submitted within 30 days of purchase.

Other than this notice requirement, there is no law requiring retailers to offer refunds or replacement merchandise. However, if a retailer has this policy, it must post it or it is not enforceable.
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amother




Burlywood
 

Post  Sat, Jan 09 2021, 9:21 pm
zaq wrote:
It is legal to have a policy not to give cash refunds but only store credit, but if that is the case, they are legally required to post that policy where it's visible to customers.

This from https://www.termsfeed.com/blog.....ase.:


New Jersey retailers must post their Return & Refund Policy conspicuously.

If one is not posted, then the retailer must allow returns, issue refunds or provide store credit for any merchandise submitted within 20 days of purchase.

The policy must contain certain specific information such as whether refunds will be given for items without a proof of purchase, products returned after a particular period of time, and products sold "as is" or on sale. It must make it clear how refunds will be issued (cash, store credit, etc.).

New York
Every New York retailer must conspicuously post its Return & Refund Policy.

If a retailer from New York does not provide a Return & Refund Policy, then the retailer is required to accept returns and issue refunds for all merchandise submitted within 30 days of purchase.

Other than this notice requirement, there is no law requiring retailers to offer refunds or replacement merchandise. However, if a retailer has this policy, it must post it or it is not enforceable.


The transaction was never complete. She never got her merchandise. Nothing to return.
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Simcha36




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Jan 09 2021, 9:25 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I don't use credit cards ever. I really want to avoid Beis Din, what if the store decides to make this public?


Time to get a credit card.

This is exactly what you need it for. Proof, dispute for order not delivered
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amother




Blush
 

Post  Sat, Jan 09 2021, 10:42 pm
I try to use cash as much as possible but I ALWAYS use an american express in frum stores, especially if its a significant purchase. this is the reason!
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amother




Pearl
 

Post  Sun, Jan 10 2021, 9:00 am
Ask your rav if you can report them to the department of consumer affairs and your attorney general's office. They will take care of it for you.
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WitchKitty




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jan 10 2021, 9:09 am
If you think your rav speaking to them will help, of course talk to him!
Ask him what your halachic options are.
Also as mentioned, get a card. I hate credit cards, but when I need to buy something expensive I use my American debit card. A few months ago I had a similar story with a store and got my 900$ back after I called the bank.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, Jan 13 2021, 11:54 am
So I finally got a call from them that it's coming from Canada and was held up afew times and they hope to have it by next week. I don't understand why they couldn't tell this to me to begin with.
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ShishKabob




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jan 13 2021, 12:02 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
So I finally got a call from them that it's coming from Canada and was held up afew times and they hope to have it by next week. I don't understand why they couldn't tell this to me to begin with.

For some odd reason that is how some businesses operate. I have no clue why they think it's better not to give a straight answer and just keep on putting you off.

I would rather know that the wait may be 10 weeks, rather than have someone tell me it's coming in 5 weeks and then have it 'delayed' by 5 weeks.

I'm scratching my head here, but it happens too often with too many vendors.

the same goes with repairs guys and so on.
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amother




Turquoise
 

Post  Today at 11:59 am
OP, did you get it in the end?
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