Help! DD regularly makes #2 accidents

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amother

Sun, Jan 21 2024, 8:49 am

my 3.5yr DD is smart and mature, was fully toilet trained by 2.4 yrs.
when she was aprox. 2.8 she started making #2 accidents, at first looked like mistake, then got worse till at this point (10 months later) she regularly makes in her underwear- only #2.
this happened shortly after we moved which was a big change- new house, neighborhood, school, etc. but BH she adjusted really well overall. so thought her accidents are unrelated.
first thing went to the Dr, she was positive for strep. treated that and then checked again, this time was negative. but she was still having accidents. Dr said she's prob constipated, tried mirilax but that just made things more messy. she did not start making in toilet. went back to dr who sent us for bloodwork, but everything came back negative. No PANDAS, Lyme, infection.. nothing she is perfectly healthy. after that we tried craniosacral therapy, and another person who does cranial + energy healing. no improvement at all. at that point she had officially stopped making #2 in toilet- not even by mistake.
out of desperation I decided to pretend I haven't toilet trained her at all, started from the beginning. explained what she needs to do, reminded her every 10 min and sat her onto toilet every half hour. but she would purposely hold it in till she got off toilet and then make in her undies. we tried HUGE incentives, like a family trip if she goes just once, but it still wasn't enough to make her go. went back to dr, who recommended to try OT to help her be more aware of her body. after doing therapy a couple weeks, the OT told me she feels like not accomplishing anything, were targeting the wrong issue. She said feels this is more of an emotional issue, because DD obviously knows what she's doing. its been 5 months since start of school year and she did not once have accident in school. her shame would be too big. she purposely holds it in till she gets home and then makes in her underwear. so I figured it started same time as we moved, maybe all changes in her life is what caused it, it must have been too much for her to handle even tho she seemed to adjust well.
started her on play therapy to deal with it as an emotional issue but so far (abt 4 weeks) not seeing slightest change.
At this point I am out of ideas.
its very hard for her and really hurts her self image, but it looks like she can't help herself.
it's very hard for me- the constant changing, stopping her siblings from making fun, and also I can't ever go on vacation or OOT simchas etc because she can't sleep over anywhere.

Any ideas, advice, leads or just chizzuk- I appreciate it all

Shopmiami49

Sun, Jan 21 2024, 8:53 am

Can you put her in a pullup as soon as she gets home?

It doesn't sound like she can't help herself...if she truly couldn't, she would be having accidents in school. There is definitely something holding her back and using a pullup at home will not fix the problem, but it might help her relax a little bit and get to a better place about it all emotionally so that you can figure out what's going on.

Sending lots of hugs!

Last edited by Shopmiami49 on Sun, Jan 21 2024, 9:00 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Antiquewhite

Sun, Jan 21 2024, 8:58 am

Sounds like encopresis. I have a child with it. Happy to answer any questions

amother

Seashell

Sun, Jan 21 2024, 8:58 am

It sounds very behavioral especially if she has full control in school. Is the negative attention doing something for her? What would happen if you stopped reacting and became very matter of fact about it. No comments and just cleaned her as necessary. Do you think it would peter out over a few weeks? I know it's brutally hard to do that but just a thought.

amother

Seashell

Sun, Jan 21 2024, 9:00 am

amother Antiquewhite wrote:

Sounds like encopresis. I have a child with it. Happy to answer any questions

That was my first thought but wouldn't that show up in school too?

amother

Tanzanite

Sun, Jan 21 2024, 9:01 am

If she was strep positive when it started I would very much suspect a pandas type thing going on. You can't actually rule it out by bloodwork. Was she ever tested for perianal strep? Or strep in the gut?
It can also be pinworms.
Someone I know had this and it turned out to be non celiac gluten sensitivity.
Dairy intolerance can do this to people as well.
Therapies won't work as long as there is inflammation, infections and and gut issues going on, but if it doesn't stop after you've cleaned up her diet, added a good multi strain probiotic, aggressively treated strep and pinworms/parasites, I would look into pelvic floor pt and reflex integration.
Homeopathy may also be helpful here.

How is her behavior otherwise? Any other neurodevelopmental concerns?

amother

Antiquewhite

Sun, Jan 21 2024, 9:03 am

amother Seashell wrote:

That was my first thought but wouldn't that show up in school too?

not necessarily.

amother

Geranium

Sun, Jan 21 2024, 9:04 am

Op no advice. Following

Having same issue with my 4 year old. trained for over a year. Never has accidents in school.

I don't know what to do

amother

Antiquewhite

Sun, Jan 21 2024, 9:04 am

amother Tanzanite wrote:

If she was strep positive when it started I would very much suspect a pandas type thing going on. You can't actually rule it out by bloodwork. Was she ever tested for perianal strep? Or strep in the gut?
It can also be pinworms.
Someone I know had this and it turned out to be non celiac gluten intolerance.
Dairy intolerance can do this to people as well.
Therapies won't work as long as there is inflammation, infections and and gut issues going on, but if it doesn't stop after you've cleaned up her diet, added a good multi strain probiotic, aggressively treated strep and pinworms/parasites, I would look into pelvic floor pt and reflex integration.
Homeopathy may also be helpful here.

How is her behavior otherwise? Any other neurodevelopmental concerns?

curious about the non celiac gluten intolerance. How do you test for that?

amother

Dandelion

Sun, Jan 21 2024, 9:13 am

I'm having a similar issue with my very intelligent 6 yr DS!! Just he was having both #1 and #2 accidents bc he was completely holding it in and his intestines became so enlarged from all that's there. He's been on miralax for weeks and something else OTC the Dr recommended. Was thinking of starting cranial sacral so thanks for sharing your experience with it. Reading each of the responses here for ideas.

amother

Tanzanite

Sun, Jan 21 2024, 9:21 am

amother Antiquewhite wrote:

curious about the non celiac gluten intolerance. How do you test for that?

It's a medically recognized phenomenon but there isn't really a test for it. Sometimes it'll show up as some markers on celiac panels but not enough for a diagnosis.
https://www.beyondceliac.org/c.....vity/

amother

Feverfew

Sun, Jan 21 2024, 10:07 am

Can you insist your kid sits on the toilet right after coming home from school. Lots of rewards and positive reinforcement?! I know you tried everything. Why not remove underwear when coming home and tell Child you expect her/him to make in the toilet? Have you tried having your kid wait in the bathroom for you for some time and insist your kid cleans self?

amother

Daphne

Sun, Jan 21 2024, 10:09 am

Def sound like encopresis. Sounds like the mirilax was doing it's job "making it more messy" it's exactly the first step... It just takes a while of that pattern before it's corrected. When they're so backed up stool leaks from the sides causing incontinence, it's very overwhelming. Keep up with the mirilax increasing the dose until you have a semi formed bowel movement in between all the diarrhea. It's a week of nonstop accidents and very very hard to deal with, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Unfortunately if not addressed it will get worse and worse as they get older. I had this issue with a few of my kids and it's so so difficult to deal with. Once that obstructive stool is out, maintain a lower dose of mirilax for about a year (I know! I freaked out too!!) to regulate the bowels. There will be flare ups, but it will be easier to nip it in the bud... Good luck I completely understand, its a royal nightmare.

amother

Sun, Jan 21 2024, 10:34 am

amother Seashell wrote:

I've been doing that for months. didn't want her to get negative attention at all. so every time she comes to say she made an accident I tell her in the most cool voice I can "go to your room" I then go to change her without a word- I'm literally quiet the whole time. she can probably sense that I'm super overwhelmed and so done with this, but she's deff not getting attention for it

amother

Sun, Jan 21 2024, 10:46 am

amother Feverfew wrote:

oh we've been thru that too! didn't wanna make my post too long I know ppl dont like that. but for a few weeks there she was offered every kind of incentive. even told her she can choose anything she wants- she chose family should go to chuck e cheese. so we went in the car, and showed her we'll come back here when you make. nothing. bought her favorite toys and told her will only get when she makes JUST ONCE but she still didnt.

then we tried other extreme- told her she cannot come out of bathroom till she makes. was there for hour till DH said enough, she prob doesnt need to go now. took her out, within 3 min she had accident.... tried few times telling her will have to change herself. she is a very clean child overall, so when she was dirty and I insisted she has to clean herself she was horror stricken. cried forever but refused to change and I didnt wanna give in either. ended with DH doing for her... she then just didn't go for days cuz was scared I wont change her. but still did not go in the toilet!! and it just led to more constipation on top of it all Sad

amother

Sun, Jan 21 2024, 10:48 am

amother Tanzanite wrote:

Someone I know had this and it turned out to be non celiac gluten sensitivity.
Dairy intolerance can do this to people as well.

but she was always ok, no other allergies/ sensitivities. is this something that can develop with time?

amother

Mimosa

Sun, Jan 21 2024, 10:50 am

I did a similar thing when I was a child. It was based on some fears I had and a weird need to be in control of something, and not bH a physical issue. My advice would be stop reacting to the soiling. I would just kindly and matter of factly clean her up and move on with your day, not talk about it and not show distress. I would make sure to give her lots of attention and warmth throughout the day. I would make sure she eats fruits and veggies every day (only offering them, not pressuring). I would make sure there’s a consistent schedule in place every day so her daily routine is predictable (after school we have snack, play, eat supper, bath, pajamas, bed…). I would have her sit on the potty while her bath is filling every night, and have special books that are only for looking at in the bathroom. I would make sure she has privacy for using the bathroom, and that the toilet paper is soft.

amother

Tanzanite

Sun, Jan 21 2024, 10:50 am

amother OP wrote:

but she was always ok, no other allergies/ sensitivities. is this something that can develop with time?

Yes. Or it was going on for a long time at a low level but took time for inflammation to build and symptoms to start showing

amother

Sun, Jan 21 2024, 10:50 am

amother Antiquewhite wrote:

Sounds like encopresis. I have a child with it. Happy to answer any questions

her stool is usually well formed- not runny. can it still be encopresis?

amother

Antiquewhite

Sun, Jan 21 2024, 11:10 am

amother OP wrote:

her stool is usually well formed- not runny. can it still be encopresis?

Yes very much so.

Also the the poster who's child was having pee accidents, also encopresis.

I don't have time now to post more, I will try tonight.

There is a great book called "bed wetting and accidents are not your fault" by Steven Hodges.

Also great video of you have YouTube, "the poo in you".

Have been dealing with this for 3 years I can talk about all the different meds and why miralax may not work. But I don't have time now I try to check back tonight to answer

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