Is this stealing? WWYD? Update

watergirl

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 9:47 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I don't use credit cards ever. I really want to avoid Beis Din, what if the store decides to make this public?

I also stay far away from credit cards and only use it if I MUST. For things like this, a debit card works as well moving forward. Your bank would be behind you. For example, we give a tiny amount to a tzedakka every month. Like literally $3. The past two months they took $100 each month and wont give it back, claiming we gave approval over the phone. We did not. They will not refund the money. It's not a credit card, but we called our bank and they credited us the money back and opened an investigation on the matter. Sad that the organization lost us as a donor... but by using a debit card, we had backup.

Usually when people say to pay with a credit card, they mean pay with ANY form of cash that will leave a record with a trusted institution.

little neshamala

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 9:50 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I ordered an expensive item from a store. They made me pay for it upfront and they said that they're going to have it in a week. It's been 5 weeks and they still didn't get it. They keep telling me that it's going to arrive. They refuse to give me back my money and said I can take something else. I don't want something else, I want that specific item.
Are they stealing from me? What can I do about it?

Unbelievable.
How could this not be stealing??

amother

Azure

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 9:54 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I had a very similar story. (I had bought it with a credit card) they also told me to just get anything else from the store. (Wonder if its the same store)
I ended up disputing the charge.
Also wrote a comment on their insta page and they blocked me..

allthingsblue

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 11:10 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I told them that I'm spreading the word that they have awful costumer service and people should stay away from that store. They practically laughed in my face. It's a fancy upscale store and they're the only one's in the community that sell certain products and a certain brand.

Why would you rather speak lashon hora than go the halahaically acceptable route of Beis din?

nchr

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 11:22 am

amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:

Social media works. As much as I hate doing it, sometimes we need to use it.

Or, if you know of a good customer, have them intervene. It's all about the money for them.

You can't just do or say what you want.
OP needs to ask a shaila about how to handle it.
There is also frum mediation not everything is a din Torah.
Maybe the delay is due to covid19.

amother

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 11:34 am

nchr wrote:

You can't just do or say what you want.
OP needs to ask a shaila about how to handle it.
There is also frum mediation not everything is a din Torah.
Maybe the delay is due to covid19.

They didn't say anything about Covid. They just keep saying that it will arrive. At this point I don't care why it's delayed, I want my money back.

allthingsblue

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 11:35 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I'm not deliberately going around a telling everyone to stay away. But if the store happens to come up in a discussion, I relate what happened.

Again, why not resolve it in a halachically acceptable manner?

It may well be lashon hora to say what happened when if the store comes up in discussion.

Amarante

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 11:42 am

watergirl wrote:

A debit card doesn’t offer the same protection as a credit card.

With a credit card, you do nit have to pay anything until it is resolved. With a debit card, the money has been debited from your account.

I don’t know why someone is afraid to use a credit card responsibly. I don’t charge anything to my credit card that I couldn’t afford to pay cash for. When the bill arrives, I pay for it.

With the credit card, I have maximum protection and it doesn’t cost me anything.

Bottom line - if OP had paid with a credit card, there would be no issue because store would not have been legally entitled to charge the card. With a debit card, protection is far less because the funds would have been withdrawn and you would have to fight to get them into your account. With a credit card, you owe nothing until the item is shipping or actually received.

Last edited by Amarante on Fri, Jan 08 2021, 12:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 11:44 am

allthingsblue wrote:

Again, why not resolve it in a halachically acceptable manner?

It may well be lashon hora to say what happened when if the store comes up in discussion.

I don't think it's against halacha to relate bad experience we had with a store if it comes up in a discussion. If we keep on protecting these stores in the name of lashon hora, nothing will stop them from continuing their stealing and awful service.

amother

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 12:25 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

If it’s furniture, I know that industry is having a lot of delays now maybe due to covid 19. I was told my items would take 8 weeks.

It's not furniture, I wouldn't expect furniture to take a week to ship. It's something that I could've ordered online but I wanted to see it first. Maybe they feel like they can take advantage because they're the only store in the community that sells this brand.

allthingsblue

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 12:31 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

The laws of l"h are very complex. If your friend wants to buy something that they have in stock or they can order quickly, your bad experience has nothing to do with her.

I don't shop at certain stores anymore (one sold me an outfit that shed everywhere and refused to refund me, and similar). But I don't badmouth them. My friends can see for themselves if it's worthwhile shopping there; maybe they will have a better experience.

amother

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 12:52 pm

allthingsblue wrote:

Stores that steal and have awful service don't deserve our support and protection. They should be driven out of business.
I'm not bad mouthing them, just sharing my experience.

amother

Gold

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 1:15 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Stores that steal and have awful service don't deserve our support and protection. They should be driven out of business.
I'm not bad mouthing them, just sharing my experience.

I feel for you so much, OP. Businesses and stores everywhere are using excuses for everything - you name it - covid, weather, or in the case of one non-Jewish business I have used, the person who was doing the work took off to spend her holidays with her family. I have a small business of my own, and I never never give excuses to customers. I do the work on time. If I ever did have circumstances beyond my control and couldn't do the work, I would offer the customer a rebate or refund or ask them how I could make it good.

I'm so tired of all these excuses.

Hope you get your item soon. You must be so aggravated!!

Posting under amother because I'm ranting (again). At least this time I can rant on your behalf!