I am so disgusted and upset!!!

amother

Tue, Jan 04 2011, 9:30 pm

I don't even know if this is the right place to put this but here it goes...My 12 yr old daughter is boy crazy!!! I don't know what to do about it. I was checking through her text messages on her phone yesterday and saw that she had given her number to her boy that she supposedly heard liked her!!! I grounded her from her phone for a month. I go onto her facebook page tonight to remove a boy that she had friended that I told her I was removing (not the same boy from the texts) and she has a message from the boy that was texting her and he said he didn't like her it was a prank and he didn't know she would take it so seriously...she isn't his "huny" Rolling Eyes

Ok...that is just something I am unhappy about with my daughter...but my overall problem is the lack of frumkeit in this community!!! I can't even explain it because I sure I will unintentionally offend some group of people but I will just say that this "frum" community is a ton more secular than I ever imagined. I am soooooooooo annoyed. I expected better from religious Jews. ~sigh~ I don't know if it's us or them but this isn't what I signed up for when I started my journey into Judaism.
I just want my kids to be kids, to grow up with normalcy and not to be picked on by stupid boys who think it's funny to pretend they like girls...and I also don't want her involved with BOYS AT ALL!!!
I have so many more thoughts in my head and I am sure this mainly doesn't make sense but I am just so stressed about things right now and needed to vent more than anything.

I am posting as amother because I don't want everyone to know what community I am complaining about.

morah

Tue, Jan 04 2011, 10:53 pm

Does your daughter go to a co-ed school? Is it a community where youth/social activities are mixed? If that's where you are, I can't imagine why you would have expected any differently. Yes, some frum communities are lax in that area, if you find it problematic, it's something you need to take into account when choosing where to live.

As for your daughter, remember that SHE is not disgusting. She's at exactly the right age to be getting interested in boys. The best you can do is try not to make this a battle. You want to monitor her (as you've been doing) but not so much that you suffocate her or make her feel like she has to sneak around. You also need to talk to her- validate her feelings, that it's normal to like boys, but here's why we don't go out with them etc. She needs to know that she can talk to you about these things, get honest answers to her questions, and not feel judged. I don't know what community you're talking about- believe it or not, what you're describing is NOT unique to where you are- but is there perhaps a more right-wing presence there? Are there fun social events/activities that are not co-ed that she can participate in? It's important that she have a kosher outlet. If she can never go anywhere when everyone else seems to go out, she will stew in resentment. There's more I have to say, but I can't quite articulate it at this hour. Maybe tomorrow, if I remember. Hope this helps a little.

chavamom

Tue, Jan 04 2011, 11:11 pm

morah wrote:

That's pretty much it. If you live in a community where this is the norm (and just from your post we glean that your 12 year-old has facebook and a cellphone?) it would be very unusual for your child to be different from her peers. Around 5th grade is when peers start to matter much more than their parents. The good news is that you can continue to convey your expectations. The bad news is that you will most likely have to ride this one out through teenagehood.

Signed, amother who has btdt

Basmelechpnima

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 12:02 am

I second the motion to validate her feelings...and if it's any consolation to hear this then let
me tell you- it's normal for her to be attracted to boys...if she was attracted to girls, you'd have bigger problems, I think.
There's a story about a chossid who went to his Rebbe and cried to him: I don't know what to do with my son..."er est chazzer, un tantzt mit shiksehs"(he eats chazzer and dances with shiksas)...the rebbe tells him: "doesn't sound THAT crazy...if you told me he danced with pigs and ate shiksas I'd be concerned..."

If there's any way you could convey to her that boys are not worth her time right now because they don't know how to treat girls yet, and that girls and boys both need to grow on many levels before they can deal with each other (and that time comes when it's time to date for marriage), hopefully this message will sink in even if she pretends not to get it. Even if she acts like you don't understand her.
The problems in your community are happening in most places, especially communities that are "open" to the outside world. Even if the school and community are more sheltered, all it takes is one girl to inform the whole grade of what's the latest out there (think TV shows, trends, etc.).

Lastly, is there a guidance counselor you could somehow get her to talk to at school?

Lastly, is there a guidance counselor you could hook her up with at school?

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 12:32 am

amother wrote:

she had given her number to her boy that she supposedly heard liked her!!!
<snip>
I go onto her facebook page tonight to remove a boy that she had friended that I told her I was removing (not the same boy from the texts)
and she has a message from the boy that was texting her and he said he didn't like her it was a prank and he didn't know she would take it so seriously...she isn't his "huny"
<snip>

I just want my kids to be kids, to grow up with normalcy and not to be picked on by stupid boys who think it's funny to pretend they like girls...and I also don't want her involved with BOYS AT ALL!!!

This isnt about boys its about your girl!
If she went to an all girl school she would be acting this way in other ways. By 'acting this way' I mean looking for validation from someone who she hopes will like her - in this setting its a boy, but in all girl schools its the cool/popular girls.
If you think boys can be mean to girls, they got nothing on mean girls.
It a quick wake up call to teach her the finer details of how to choose friends that matter, and how to tell when friends dont.

I have a 12 yo boy who if he was any different or if he didnt have my encouragement would be going through the roller coaster of calling a girl in his class his GF. We have talked about it and what he (and she) really want is to just be friends cause they have stuff in common. So I encourage the friendship and stress that its OK to be friends and if others are teasing or encouraging that they are BF/GF to just let it go, because if it true, or if it is not, its private and never a matter up for discussion with anyone else.

Your daughter is doing what most girls do, and the best response I can think of is filling her life with other meaningful things. Sports, art or theater anything that will occupy her time in a more positive manner, and get her to find friends (boys or girls) that are worthy of her time and energy.

My son asked when does it change from friend to BF/GF- like whats the difference...
I asked him "Do you want to kiss her?" and I held my breath...
then his face scrunched up and he said UGH NO!
and I breathed a sigh of relief and told him - NOT YET but come talk to me if that ever changes.

Quote:

I don't know if it's us or them but this isn't what I signed up for when I started my journey into Judaism.

Its what you signed up for when you became a parent LOL

--- I am writing this from the POV of a former BY girl who would never have her kids in a segregated world like I grew up.
I believe that if a child is looking for love before she should at least in this world you may end up with a good guy... when your in the BY world and your searching for love you will get burned in the worst ways.

bubby

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 1:03 am

I don't know you or the community you're talking about, but you can't change or control other people. Actually, you can't really control your daughter, but you can guide her. It sounds to me that you're blaming everyone else. Who bought/gave her these toys?

WHY does a 12 year old need a cell phone? WHY does she need a FB account? If this was my child I'd take the phone & the computer privileges for the foreseeable future. At least you can restrict her contacts. If she goes to a co-ed school you can't restrict her interaction, but you could do other things, like really talk to her about what is acceptable according to your family's standards.

I know it's worrying, but if you remember she's still a child you can parent her as the child she is. Also, perhaps you need to evaluate her friends. At this age, friends have more influence than parents.

I'm so glad I don't have to do this any more, it's so stressful & hard to do. Don't worry, this too shall pass!

BeershevaBubby

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 1:24 am

bubby wrote:

Why take it away from her, instead teach her to use it responsibly. The OP doesn't say if her daughter broke any household rules about texting in general or texting boys specifically or about being friends with boys on Facebook.

It's the parents who are at fault for not setting what they deem proper ground rules with how the phone and the internet are to be used (OP, I'm merely going on the info you gave us).

abbyfromtennessee

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 4:39 am

The MOST important thing you can do for your daughter is listen to her. That doesn't mean that you comply with all of her wishes and let her do whatever she wants; it means that you do your upmost to make her feel that, even if she makes choices of which you disapprove, she can talk to you, and you will really and truly try to understand. The LAST thing you want to do is to drive her away and make her feel like you are all about rules and punishments. Try to understand where she is coming from, and why she is behaving in these ways. No doubt she was fully aware that you would disapprove of her behavior. The thing to keep in mind is that her motivation to behave that way DESPITE her knowing that you would be unhappy probably has VERY little to do with a wish on her part to be defiant. There is something else behind it, and it is NOT a desire to upset you. She is not text-messaging boys "davka." So try to approach her with that in mind. If you can stay open and calm and not angry, then you are building a line of communication with her that will hopefully last a lifetime, and you are modeling for her a type of behavior that you will want her to emulate when she is an adult, and a loved one of hers--whether a spouse, or a child, or an aging mother--makes choices which she finds hurtful or unwise. Again, I am not advocating that you let her do whatever she wants; I just think that the one of the best things you can do for her as a mother and a role model is to teach her how to communicate honestly and respectfully with someone who is behaving in a way you find objectionable. I hope this makes sense.

Once you have established a line of communication, you should find her a whole lot more compliant with the rules you wish to implement in your home: She will likely think about how her choices affect you, and whether they are in line with the way you want your home to run. I cannot promise that she will always do what you would want her to, but at least she will, with your guidance and modeling, have developed a sense of empathy and respect for the things which you consider important and valuable.

Abby

Mrs.K

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 5:19 am

OP, may I pose a different angle?

When I was young, I was known as 'boy-crazy'. It was unacceptable in my family/school/community to have communication with the opposite gender, but I had crush after crush, did everything I could to show up where I knew boys would be, was in shul every shabbos peaking into the men's section, and so on and so forth.

The thing is, I really wasn't boy crazy. I was just very insecure and very lonely. I didn't like myself, I was unattractive, unpopular, and awkward. I thought that if I could get a boy to notice me, well wouldn't that would be the ultimate reassurance that I was likable to someone? If a boy could glance my way, maybe I really wasn't as ugly and awkward as I thought? That's all it was. Had my parents and school found out about it I may have been labeled a 'bum' or grounded or expelled with a frenzy of worry for spiritual well-being, but really, all it was was needing reassurance that someone could take an interest in me.

Maybe try figuring out why your daughter is doing what she's doing. Is she really just a budding adolescent with raging hormones or is she looking for something more? Attention? Ego-boost?

grin

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 8:30 am

I agree not to come down too hard on her - it could just drive a wedge between you and make her do it "davka". If your relationship is pretty strong, sit down and have a talk with her - explain your values and why it's important to you. (it goes without saying that you uphold your own values - teens absolutely detest hypocrisy.)

If your relationship isn't strong, work on that before anything else - iyh you have a lot of battles ahead of you and you won't be able to influence her at all without that basis. Take an interest in her likes and dislikes, how her day went, who her friends are.

Ruchel

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 12:40 pm

Yes, such "pranks" exist and that's why I did NOT envy the girls and boys who were allowed to "date" (I went to a public school OOT). Also, the break ups... the jealousies, the going crazy, the messing up with school.

I say get her a phone with only authorized numbers that can call/text/be called/be texted.

Yes, I agree it's shocking when it happens in fully Orthodox schools. But sometimes the kids aren't frum, or are light, or the parents are overwhelmed and don't check on them as they should and as is their duty. And some kids just would do anything...

You may want to consider a change in school, maybe even in community. You are right to protect her from all this, especially SO very young. If she accumulates bad experiences, she can get turned off or afraid from shidduchim. I've seen it. Better she arrives with a clear slate and no bad ideas on the boys. I had friends who were not even 20 and already full of hateful stereotypes (non Jews).

For information, some communities hold a co-ed high school for ideology/money/not caring reasons, but some of these schools absolutely forbid "relationships" (and may limit socialization, or not) - while some supposedly non co-ed turn a blind eye to such relationships and girls and boys going to eat together outside the school at lunch...

If your DD cannot "just be friends" (yes it exists), then I think she is better off separated from boys.

She needs to be told it is for her own sake - maybe if you can't do it, a trusted mechanechet can? a "cool" but shtark teacher or rebbetzin?
Hold on strong, as a mom she'll thank you!!

Fox

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 1:29 pm

I thought a lot about this thread, since I have slightly older daughters of my own. Happily, they're not "boy crazy" as you describe, but I've seen this phenomena among a number of their friends. A couple of thoughts . . .

Mrs.K wrote:

The thing is, I really wasn't boy crazy. I was just very insecure and very lonely. I didn't like myself, I was unattractive, unpopular, and awkward. I thought that if I could get a boy to notice me, well wouldn't that would be the ultimate reassurance that I was likable to someone? If a boy could glance my way, maybe I really wasn't as ugly and awkward as I thought? That's all it was. Had my parents and school found out about it I may have been labeled a 'bum' or grounded or expelled with a frenzy of worry for spiritual well-being, but really, all it was was needing reassurance that someone could take an interest in me.

Mrs. K's experience overwhelming coincides with what I've seen. Invariably, the "boy crazy" girls feel like outsiders among their peers. Of course, all teenagers feel like they don't fit in, but this is how these girls react to the feeling.

One idea is to help your daughter find an outlet that is both a little different from her peers but gives her a bit of "celebrity" at the same time -- something that will help her be seen as a little "cool." Music lessons; martial arts; cooking school; whatever . . .

Another thought that occurs to me:

You don't specifically say that you are a BT or "frummer than before," but I got that impression from your description of your "journey into Judaism." People in that situation often get the impression, even subconsciously, that frum teenagers are different from secular teenagers. And it's true, they are -- kind of. But they have plenty in common with other teenagers, even if we don't like to acknowledge it.

As Mrs. K indicates, there are plenty of boy-crazy girls as well as girl-crazy boys. Boruch Hashem, most of their behavior is not really damaging in the long run. Keep an eye on things, but don't let it become a huge source of contention between you.

So I would probably do what Mrs. K suggests, but I wouldn't get too hysterical!

amother

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 1:39 pm

OP Here....thank you all so much for your well thought out replies. I will give you some more background on us that should answer questions.
I am a geiress, as is my 12 yr old. We came into this life about 3 yrs ago. So we came from secular to religious while still holding onto some secular things...like disney channel, internet, cell phones, music. My husband is not her father...he passed away when she was 6 and was never a strong male influence for her. I think that is part of the problem. And Mrs K your post brought tears to my eyes because I was the same way (although not Jewish) and I think this is part of what is going on with my DD too...and one of her best friends is very liked by boys. This makes it all the more difficult for her. It also breaks my heart. I almost wish some boy would like her just so she could feel better about herself. BUT I still don't want her to have a "bf."
Also the school is sort of co-ed. The boys and girls school is in one building but they are separated after kindergarten. I think they see each other during recess and lunch and on the buss but no other times. We also found out after we moved here that the majority of kids in the school are not frum or only frum lite. There are no other options in our town.

Oh and I wanted to add...she had a no boys rule for facebook and her cell phone but she seems to think I won't notice or something. Which doesn't make sense since she was told before having a FB page and buying her own cell phone that everything would be regularly checked.

I guess I am just freaked out because this is my first teenager stuff and I didn't think it would be so bad once we became frum. I have always been afraid of things like this with her which was part of my decision to become a religious Jew.

I may have missed answering some posts, I will reread.

amother

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 2:19 pm

BTW...I did try to have the school counselor meet with her last year...she was supposed to take her weekly and only did it 2-3 times.

The reason she has a cell phone is because we don't have a house phone and she occasionally stays home alone or walks to the bus stop while I am at work...it's so we can keep in touch or in case of an emergency...and sadly most kids her age around here have one. And she paid for it herself and I thought it would be something to help her learn to be responsible with her money, it tracks her minutes. The facebook is to keep in touch with friends and family that live in different states than us. She also friended some of her local friends that have facebook. She is currently grounded from both things however.

life'sgreat

Wed, Jan 05 2011, 6:12 pm

amother wrote:

Oh and of course I don't find her disgusting..I find the situation with that boy disgusting. I try to keep lines of communication open between us but for some reason she feels compelled to lie about things. In order to get her to tell me the truth about something text related I started asking her friend.
Oh on top of all of this...she just started her monthly period a week or 2 ago.... Confused

I'm sure we will get through this...I just need to find my footing.

I think asking her friend is a terrible terrible move. Your daughter will lose trust in you (and she WILL find out), and it can rupture your relationship with her beyond repair. Not to mention that you're being unfair to her friend who must feel so torn about this. Your daughter will feel betrayed not only by you, but by her friend as well.

I also want to say that from what you've written I'm not surprised that she tries to hide things from you. A fire and brimstone approach is not something a 12 year old will pull towards. It seems to me from your reactions that she feels invalidated and that you really don't get it. It seems like you're pushing her to lie.