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Stubborn preschooler

 
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amother




OP


Post  Mon, Aug 19 2019, 7:03 pm
How do you deal with stubborn preschoolers? I have a kid that is a good kid and doesn't really misbehave. But when she makes up her mind about something she can be very insistent and she will stick to her guns. At home I distract, compromise and choose my battles depending on what the situation is. But in school settings they just see it as defiance and if she doesn't give up on her idea immediately she gets punished and it starts an ugly cycle of her feeling the need to stick to her guns and they feeling they must stop it. Punishments have made it worse and I'm at a loss as to how to get this cycle to stop.
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ectomorph




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Aug 19 2019, 7:07 pm
Talk to her teacher? She can't be the first stubborn kid ever lol. It sounds like the issue is exclusively at school.

You can't change her personality. You need to figure out how to channel it.
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amother




OP


Post  Mon, Aug 19 2019, 7:09 pm
ectomorph wrote:
Talk to her teacher? She can't be the first stubborn kid ever lol. It sounds like the issue is exclusively at school.

You can't change her personality. You need to figure out how to channel it.


Speaking to teachers hasn't worked. They feel she must change. I don't want to change her personality but not sure how to get teachers to work with her the way she is.
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dankbar




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Aug 19 2019, 7:12 pm
These power struggles don't stop. They are trying to break her stubborness & this makes her harden even more & not want to give in. Its a good thing summer camp is almost over. With next teacher, pre-empt her how she should handle your daughter more positivitely, in order to reach her.
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dankbar




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Aug 19 2019, 7:19 pm
Kids that misbehave love the negative attention, if you focus just on them, negatively & will continue the pattern.
With punishment, it's a never ending cycle, as both try to show they're boss. Kid will get even more stubborn to show teacher that "You won't make me....
Gets you nowhere!

Instead if you focus on good girls, good behavior with positive reinforcement, conpliment when you catch them doing good, you are better off & will get places rather!
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ectomorph




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Aug 19 2019, 7:22 pm
dankbar wrote:
These power struggles don't stop. They are trying to break her stubborness & this makes her harden even more & not want to give in. Its a good thing summer camp is almost over. With next teacher, pre-empt her how she should handle your daughter more positivitely, in order to reach her.

This is great advice. Stubbornness can be a wonderful trait and I hate to see a teacher trying to fight it.
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amother




Indigo


Post  Mon, Aug 19 2019, 7:26 pm
I would try to figure out if there's a pattern. What is she stubborn about? Maybe you will discover that she has a reason for it. Little kids have a really hard time expressing themselves effectively. This may be her way of expressing an emotion.
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amother




OP


Post  Mon, Aug 19 2019, 7:35 pm
I happen to think being stubborn is a good trait. She has leadership qualities and is very smart and I feel like she will go places one day. I hate that this is an issue right now. I have tried speaking to teachers, preempting and giving ideas that work. But it has never worked so far. Most of the time I don't feel she's wrong and they didn't have to force her to do something else. I'll give a recent small example. She got on the bus last and said I get nauseous in the back I can't sit there, they said you will sit there because that is where there is a seat. She refused to sit there and they refused to change anyone's seat. So she was punished.
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ectomorph




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Aug 19 2019, 7:37 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I happen to think being stubborn is a good trait. She has leadership qualities and is very smart and I feel like she will go places one day. I hate that this is an issue right now. I have tried speaking to teachers, preempting and giving ideas that work. But it has never worked so far. Most of the time I don't feel she's wrong and they didn't have to force her to do something else. I'll give a recent small example. She got on the bus last and said I get nauseous in the back I can't sit there, they said you will sit there because that is where there is a seat. She refused to sit there and they refused to change anyone's seat. So she was punished.

It sounds like a different school might be a better fit.
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dankbar




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Aug 19 2019, 7:38 pm
Thats cruel
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amother




Burgundy


Post  Mon, Aug 19 2019, 11:36 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I happen to think being stubborn is a good trait. She has leadership qualities and is very smart and I feel like she will go places one day. I hate that this is an issue right now. I have tried speaking to teachers, preempting and giving ideas that work. But it has never worked so far. Most of the time I don't feel she's wrong and they didn't have to force her to do something else. I'll give a recent small example. She got on the bus last and said I get nauseous in the back I can't sit there, they said you will sit there because that is where there is a seat. She refused to sit there and they refused to change anyone's seat. So she was punished.



Sorry, but did you ever work with an entire group/class of 25 or more kids who each say they "need " a different seat bec....??? You dont seem to understand that every child who doesnt want to sit in the back will come up with a reason why they must sit in the front as soon as they see your child being allowed to "tell the teacher, no! ". Everything children do set a tone. Yes, there are some special accomodations so maybe if you had written a note about her needing to sit in the front....thats different.

But, teachers "cant win". If they are strict and enforce that everyone must sit where the teacher says to sit, it sets a tone that everyone must listen to the teacher....and learning will take place, students will learn that rules must be followed. If a teacher lets kids tell her why they dont need to listen, it sends a message to the other kids, that they dont need to listen either. Then, the parents will say that teacher cant "control the class". So, no matter what, the parents blame the teacher. But, what you want for your child, does not work with a large class such that you are not understanding that students cant be telliing the teacher that they wont listen bec....otherwise, all the kids will do this and noone will listen to the teacher.....you are not thinking about your child from a teacher's point of view as a teacher has an entire class.

Maybe if your child were in a small special ed. Class where she had individual goals like in an iep or....it would be different...but pls think of this from a teacher's view....your strategies with your child works well for home where you are surely giving more individual attention and where there is more "free time" but this wont work for a group setting where its important to enforce rules for everyone consistently.....to ensure learning takes place in a safe and proper environment.
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amother




OP


Post  Mon, Aug 19 2019, 11:40 pm
amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:
Sorry, but did you ever work with an entire group/class of 25 or more kids who each say they "need " a different seat bec....??? You dont seem to understand that every child who doesnt want to sit in the back will come up with a reason why they must sit in the front as soon as they see your child being allowed to "tell the teacher, no! ". Everything children do set a tone. Yes, there are some special accomodations so maybe if you had written a note about her needing to sit in the front....thats different.

But, teachers "cant win". If they are strict and enforce that everyone must sit where the teacher says to sit, it sets a tone that everyone must listen to the teacher....and learning will take place, students will learn that rules must be followed. If a teacher lets kids tell her why they dont need to listen, it sends a message to the other kids, that they dont need to listen either. Then, the parents will say that teacher cant "control the class". So, no matter what, the parents blame the teacher. But, what you want for your child, does not work with a large class such that you are not understanding that students cant be telliing the teacher that they wont listen bec....otherwise, all the kids will do this and noone will listen to the teacher.....you are not thinking about your child from a teacher's point of view as a teacher has an entire class.

Maybe if your child were in a small special ed. Class where she had individual goals like in an iep or....it would be different...but pls think of this from a teacher's view....your strategies with your child works well for home where you are surely giving more individual attention and where there is more "free time" but this wont work for a group setting where its important to enforce rules for everyone consistently.....to ensure learning takes place in a safe and proper environment.


Yes actually I worked in large preschool classrooms for many years which is why I am even more frustrated with how they handle things. You need to take it down many notches. I did see it from their view and tried to work with them. I did not ask them to do what I do at home. But they won't work with kids, it's do exactly as I say or you will be punished. Running a classroom is more than it just being a boot camp especially when her ratio of teachers to kids was pretty high.
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amother




Ivory


Post  Mon, Aug 19 2019, 11:44 pm
Your preschooler is getting punished by her teachers?

If you think most of the time your child is 'in the right' and getting punished - she's needs to be somewhere else.
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Rappel




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Aug 19 2019, 11:51 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I happen to think being stubborn is a good trait. She has leadership qualities and is very smart and I feel like she will go places one day. I hate that this is an issue right now. I have tried speaking to teachers, preempting and giving ideas that work. But it has never worked so far. Most of the time I don't feel she's wrong and they didn't have to force her to do something else. I'll give a recent small example. She got on the bus last and said I get nauseous in the back I can't sit there, they said you will sit there because that is where there is a seat. She refused to sit there and they refused to change anyone's seat. So she was punished.


If this is what we're talking about then you, as her parent, need to back her up. She's not doing anything wrong - just stating facts. They're the ones with the problem. Hopefully, her confidence won't be crushed if she knows you believe her.
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Laiya




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 20 2019, 12:08 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Yes actually I worked in large preschool classrooms for many years which is why I am even more frustrated with how they handle things. You need to take it down many notches. I did see it from their view and tried to work with them. I did not ask them to do what I do at home. But they won't work with kids, it's do exactly as I say or you will be punished. Running a classroom is more than it just being a boot camp especially when her ratio of teachers to kids was pretty high.


You recognize that her teachers and the school are not going to change.

I agree with the other posters here suggesting it's time for a new school.
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dankbar




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 20 2019, 3:44 am
I was a teacher for young kids.
Those stubborn kids, when you get in to a power struggle & punish you don't win.
I had a child who was trying to disrupt the class while I was teaching. (Mostly my class was exciting so kids wanted to listen.)
She got up in middle of circle in front of me & dancing in front of me, even tried to overturn my chair while sitting on it. It was blatant chutzpah, so I needed to punish her, for her to learn & for class to see. (she knew no limits because she was spoiled rotten from home)
Punishing didn't help, it just escalated the fight & she loved the negative attention that whole class was now revolved around her, trying to show she will win. If I told her to sit in corner, she made sure to make noise.
When I warned her couple of times, that if she is disrupting class, she will need to wait outside the classroom door till we finish the lesson, she punched open the door, couple of times. If I sent her to a lower grade for a bit, she ran back to our classroom couple of times. Nothing doing. At end, I told principal & she did play therapy with her & brought down the parents to teach them how to discipline & be mechanech their daughter. That changed her, when parents learned to say no to her.

otoh, I used to try in general to discipline positively with entire class & that worked. If class went to the bathroom, there were always some kids who stayed lingering at the sink, to platchke with the water. Telling them to stop didn't help. What did help was that I made everyone excited for next project to want to run back to the classroom.

Same thing by clean up time. There were always same diligent obedient girls, packing up the toys and same lazy girls who didnt want to budge. Going in on a fight with them didn't help. What did help was noticing & praising the good ones, sometimes with a sticker, ignoring the bad behavior, that was incentive for everyone to come running to help, to get noticed. Positive reinforcement.
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dankbar




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 20 2019, 3:49 am
In OP case this is not about control of a class, the child told the teacher about her very valid needs & her needs were being ignored. Could be teacher sees it as a pattern , that child is trying to manipulate her, so she didnt believe her. In daycamp, they take young inexperienced girls as teachers who don't always know how to deal with the kids.
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dankbar




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 20 2019, 3:59 am
One rebbi tried to break my son's stubborness but my son was just fighting back even harder. He was frustrated because he was a master mechanech for 15 years, never had such a tough nut to tackle. The kids used to be afraid when he punished them, not my son. If he told him, if you can't sit still in my classroom you can head home, that's what my son did, he left classroom & was headed home.
Anyway, the more stubborn the rebbi got, the more stubborn my son got. I taught the rebbi, how to go about to deal with my son, at end when he followed suit, he was succesful in reaching him & they ended up having a great relatonship.
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