S/o socially awkward

ectomorph

Sun, Dec 30 2018, 8:10 pm

Love also involves teaching kids to function in society. Being different socially often has negative consequences in relationships and the work world and I'd like to help my kids be as normal as possible.

Acceptance is nice but sometimes kindness in the short run is cruel in the long run.

Edit: of course as adults we should be kind. But saying that all social differences are a normal variation and we should just accept them can have negative consequences.

A child who is constantly late I have to teach the importance of timeliness. Etc.

amother

Papaya

Sun, Dec 30 2018, 9:35 pm

Here's the other side of the story. I recently found out that my husband is on the spectrum. This means that he doesn't really understand what I'm about(worse than a typical man) even though we are married many years. It means that when there is an emotional situation, like a death in the family and we are all in tears, he doesn't get it and will say totally inappropriate and hurtful things. He has no memory of very difficult times we went through because....he doesn't get it. He means well and has a good heart but this limitation is not a joke. So I accept and accept and coach and accept but it brings distance. He can't help it but I suffer plenty so let's be very careful in shidduchim and not let anybody feel like they are desperate to get married (which I was). It's not a chesed to overlook these kind of things because he may have been better off with somebody else who also had limited emotions.

amother

Dodgerblue

Sun, Dec 30 2018, 9:47 pm

Papaya, I've been in your shoes. It's so hard!

Social skills are definitely something has has to be learned. Nobody is born with acceptable social behavior.

1. some people learn the skills more easily than others, but they learn
2. some people don't want to learn, because (whatever reasons)
3. some people can't learn, because it's like teaching your dog to speak Chinese. You get frustrated, and it's unfair to the dog. The dog is trying to be good, and isn't sure what you want from it.

People on the spectrum can make great friends, even close friends, but being a full time life partner is another thing all together.

amother

Amber

Sun, Dec 30 2018, 10:22 pm

amother wrote:

I totally get it, papaya. My husband has Aspergers and he doesn't get emotions either. When my mother passed away a few years ago, I didn't get any support or comfort. He wouldn't say anything hurtful or inappropriate, but he just doesn't know what to say and runs out of the room and ignores the whole situation, as if it doesn't exist. You say that it brings distance, I understand that the situation in itself can cause distance, but even more than that being the reason for the distance between us, I feel that he wants to distance himself from me. He likes to be on his own always, and when I beg him to sit and talk to me just for a few minutes, it's rather a punishment for him. He would much rather sit in his room all by himself, with the door locked. So yes, I agree with you that it's not a chesed to overlook these kind of things, because we both suffer in the long run.

DrMom

Mon, Dec 31 2018, 1:49 am

amother wrote:

What does this even mean?

Guess what guys- autism is becoming more and more prevalent. When yof NTs a not the majority any more, you won't be "normal". So then maybe the world will change to reflect the new normal. And you will sit in the corner figeting while we discuss high level maths or movies you havent seen or the latest developments in the periodic table , and we can say how weird you are because after half an hour you interrupt something really interesting to say something as meaningless and untruthful as "nice seeing you, must go now because the babysitter called."

Yes, there are many chemists in the world who would love to sit around and discuss the periodic table. But if you cannot hold your end of the conversation in a room full of people who are *not* discussing the periodic table -- or anything even remotely related to it -- or if you cannot steer the topic toward something in which you can participate, then you are lacking a basic social skill that the vast majority of the population possesses.

I'm not talking about feeling awkward in a roomful of people discussing a topic for which even basic participation requires extensive knowledge which you do not possess. I'm talking about a situation in which everyone in the room is discussing the weather and you simply cannot bring yourself to discuss anything except tree fungus, or you are thinking about tree fungus and therefore you are incapable of making small talk about any other topic. Or you cannot even wrap your head around the social lubrication that "small talk" provides.

It's not about being super-duper book-smart (although some who are super-super book-smart are socially awkward).

It's about empathy, about understanding and anticipating how others in your presence react to what you say.

It's about expressing sympathy when someone loses a loved one. It's about managing a conversation in a group of people without knowing the topic ahead of time and just flowing with the conversation. It's about reading other people.

Humans are (biologically, evolutionarily) social creatures, and these skills have helped us survive. That doesn't mean that everyone is a born social butterfly, but acute lack of these critical social skills usually has a negative impact not only at cocktail parties, but also at work, in dating situations, in interacting with spouses and friends, etc.

True, the occasional completely-socially-awkward-but-academically-brilliant person may go on to be a very successful academic (classic absent-minded professor type), but that is a tiny minority, and that still doesn't mean they are easy to live with, or that they would not benefit from improving their social skills.

etky

Mon, Dec 31 2018, 3:01 am

southernbubby wrote:

I saw an ad for a book which is titled something about Yosef hatzadik being on the spectrum.
I see some very atypical people who have plenty of friends.

I have used the services of the Self Esteem store in Detroit for children's products related to social skills.

And decades after it was published, people still read the book, "How to make friends and influence people" so I think that many people have to learn the social skills that they didn't aquire naturally.

I just read it.
Interesting thesis and anyone who has an interest in the topic will find it a compelling read.
I found though that his argument gets weaker and weaker as the Yosef narrative and Yosef's character becomes more complex. I especially didn't agree with his analysis of Yosef's treatment of his brothers when they came down to Egypt to purchase food. That is where the author lost me.
More fundamentally, I'm not sure that it's fair to deduce this type of conclusion regarding Yosef from the details of his actions that the narrative provides, given that the narrative has its own ideological agenda which influences how it fashions the story.

amother

Jetblack

Mon, Dec 31 2018, 10:15 am

DrMom wrote:

Even in the academic world, smarts will only get you so far. I once had a tutor who was a true prodigy in math and constantly bitter about their unappreciated abilities.

But even a math professor has to at least be able to answer to a boss, comply w basic social expectations, and be able to talk to students without reducing them to tears. Ie if you cant impress the people who will hire you you wont get hired.